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to grow and starve the things that gotta

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go and with that said let's get on with

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in the 1930s president franklin delano

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roosevelt addressed the nation through a

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series of radio broadcasts known as the

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fireside chats his aim was to reassure

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the common man that our society would

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recover from its troubled times well

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we're far from 1930 and i deal with a

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different kind of fire for a new era of

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worldly frustration we offer a fresh

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conversation i'm greg carlwood and these

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are the higher side chats

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here we go again higher side chatters

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doing the thing from sunny san diego i'm

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greg carlwood and as weird as the waking

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world can be it doesn't come close to

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the serious strangeness of sleep and

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dreaming

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upon a little reflection i'm sure many

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of us have had dreams that felt more

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vibrant and more real than our normal

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day-to-day or have had dream time events

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burned into our brains years later with

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an impact that the stuff we're told is

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real just can't match

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it's as if the grand architect had the

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wisdom to know our daily lives would

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eventually coalesce around boring

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routines dull jobs and mundane

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experiences and the dream state is a

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nightly reminder of a deeper mystery to

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life than the fastest route to the

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office or why instagram is down

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it calls us to wonder yet we have been

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trained to dismiss it all as some kind

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of sleep time screensaver and it gets

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even weirder still when examples of

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precognitive dreams are in no short

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supply and whether it's cataclysmic

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tragedy or simply taking out the trash

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the knowing that you have seen or

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experienced something before exactly as

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it's playing out has happened to pretty

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much all of us as if reality itself

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knocks on our mental door and calls us

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to explore deeper

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but we don't pull on that thread because

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we just ordered a bucket of chicken

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we're scrolling our phones and we're

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gonna binge a new season of ozark

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well here to rekindle the fire of

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intrigue behind precognitive dreams the

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hypnogic state consciousness deja vu and

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synchronicity is the great gary lachman

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he's a card-carrying member of the rock

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and roll hall of fame and the author of

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over 20 books on subjects ranging from

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the western esoteric tradition the

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evolution of consciousness the

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crossroads between esotericism society

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and culture to biographies of intriguing

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characters like aleister crowley rudolph

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steiner carl young madame blavatsky

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emmanuel swedenborg colin wilson and

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more

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we did this once before discussing his

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book the return of holy russia

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apocalyptic history mystical awakening

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and the struggle for the soul of the

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world and we're doing the dance once

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again to talk about his latest book

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dreaming ahead of time experiences with

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pre-cognitive dreams synchronicity and

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coincidence

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back in the saddle and ready to ride the

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dream diary die hard esoteric culture

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author and explorer of intriguing

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curiosities gary lachman welcome back to

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the higher side

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well i have to say that has to be one of

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the most amazing introductions i've ever

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i've ever had to live up to

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so thank you so much greg for that

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you've set the bar a few inches higher

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and that's made us stretch so we're

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gonna go for it but yes thank you very

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much i'm very very happy to be back here

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uh having another higher side shot

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yes man attention spans are short these

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days so you gotta grab them and i am

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psyched to talk to you again thank you

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for your time i really enjoyed the last

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one and this book was also jam-packed

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with interesting ideas and fun stories

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and the conclusions of history's great

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thinkers who have tackled the issues of

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pre-cognitive dreams synchronicity

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consciousness and time

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really good stuff this has clearly been

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an interest of yours for a long time

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because you've been recording your

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dreams on and off for the last 40 years

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let's kick it off with the age-old

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question of why this book and why now

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well

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my now is

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i say the beginning of the book is

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i gave a talk here in london

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in 2019

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back in the old days before covid came

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to town

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and

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it was part of a series of events going

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on in london called the borderlands of

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sleep

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and it was at a

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wonderfully old victorian cemetery here

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um brompton cemetery over in west london

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and i gave a talk on hypnagogia and

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hypnagogia i'm sure your listeners know

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but it's that in-between state that

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liminal state between sleeping and

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waking which we pass through at least

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you know twice a day

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once we're falling asleep and waking up

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there's some people who split hairs

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between hypnagogic is when you're

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falling asleep hitting the pump because

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when you're waking up

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but just for all intents and purposes

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it's you know pretty much the same

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kind of thing and it's the very very

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strange state of mind and among other

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things that happen

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in that hypnagogic state are some

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paranormal experiences or they've been

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known to happen in that state one of

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which is a form precognition where you

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sort of know something in advance of it

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actually taking place and

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as that was the case

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towards the end of the talk i tagged on

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a few

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references and examples of preconcentric

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dreams

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and the most famous one is his famous

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book well used to be famous it came out

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almost 100 years ago now amazing how old

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this stuff is now

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called an experiment with time

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and this was written by j.w don who was

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an aeronautics engineer he had no

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interest in the occult really or at

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least he said so in that book it later

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subsequently came out that he did but at

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that time when he first published the

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book and just by chance he discovered

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that he dreamed the future and he gives

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an account of you know several dreams

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that he had

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in which he dreamed events that were

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going to happen to him particularly it's

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not like you're raised up above some

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vast temporal landscape and you can see

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the future like criswell predicts it's

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not like that it's specifically your own

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future what is going to happen to you as

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if it's a film

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a couple scenes from the film have

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jumped ahead of the queue

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jumped ahead of line sequence and you're

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seeing them in advance when they really

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should take place

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so i tagged those things on and i also

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tagged on some of my own

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because

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i have been recording these sorts of

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precognitive or what they call done-type

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dreams in the literature

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for the last 40 years

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and

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funnily enough

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the next day after the talk

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i went on to twitter as one does and one

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of the first things i saw was a tweet

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from someone who had been at the talk

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and it was a woman and she wrote omg

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with you know a few exclamation points

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it's true

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and blah blah blah i went to talk about

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future dreams and she said that she

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dreamt that she had picked a hedgehog up

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off the road hedgehogs are these strange

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creatures that are you know very

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prominent here in great britain

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and picked it up off the road and put it

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on on the pavement the sidewalk so it

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wouldn't get run over you know by a car

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and she said the first thing she saw in

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her twitter feed that morning was a post

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about how to protect the hedgehogs

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so i said okay well there you go you

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know it wasn't exactly

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the future but it was very close because

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often these dreams are subject to

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something i call symbolic distortion

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and that's because dreams speak in a

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symbolic language anyway

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so that happening you know getting that

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tweet after the talk made me think um

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okay

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and

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as it was

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when was that it was sort of okay that's

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the end of 2019

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i spent the first lockdown here

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in the uk

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so i guess it's sort of the spring to

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the summer of 2020 now so two years ago

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more or less

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writing this book

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and as i said i've been recording these

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dreams for the last 40 years and i start

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off going back to about 1980 that's why

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i start recording the first of these

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dreams after i read

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dunn's book and i did exactly what he

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said to do

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he said if you want to know whether this

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is true because he first starts off

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thinking that it's some strange thing

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that happened to him

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then he finds out that this happens to

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other people as well

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so

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for him it's a kind of common human

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experience that we're just not aware of

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00:09:45,670 --> 00:09:44,240
because we don't pay attention to our

279
00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:45,680
dreams and all that

280
00:09:48,790 --> 00:09:47,600
he said if you want to corroborate what

281
00:09:50,710 --> 00:09:48,800
i'm saying

282
00:09:53,430 --> 00:09:50,720
just start writing your dreams down and

283
00:09:55,670 --> 00:09:53,440
so i did and he was right

284
00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:55,680
that's a really good summary and last

285
00:09:59,829 --> 00:09:58,320
time we spoke the coveted lockdowns were

286
00:10:01,269 --> 00:09:59,839
really just starting to happen and you

287
00:10:03,030 --> 00:10:01,279
mentioned an old dream that you had

288
00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:03,040
written down where you were told just

289
00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:04,880
stay inside where it's safe which is

290
00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:07,200
pretty synchronistic but do you have any

291
00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:09,519
other examples of impressive

292
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:11,600
precognitive dreams that you would share

293
00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:13,440
with people

294
00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:15,600
well the one i highlight in the book or

295
00:10:22,550 --> 00:10:19,680
say for me seems the most conclusive

296
00:10:24,150 --> 00:10:22,560
is that in 1990

297
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:24,160
i had a dream

298
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:26,320
about the film

299
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:29,680
about the shadow which is the old 1930s

300
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,360
pope magazine character lamont cranston

301
00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:35,519
you know who had gone to tibet and

302
00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:37,200
learned the secrets of having to cloud

303
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:38,959
men's minds and all this sort of thing

304
00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:40,480
and then he comes back and he fights

305
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:42,240
crime and he's kind of a proto batman

306
00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:44,320
sort of thing but this was an old pulp

307
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:45,440
magazine

308
00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:46,399
character

309
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:48,000
and i read these stories when i was a

310
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,760
kid growing up you know they were out in

311
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:51,360
paperback and all that i mean they

312
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:53,360
started out in the 30s and 40s but they

313
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:55,279
came out in paperback when i was growing

314
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:56,399
up and all that

315
00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:57,360
so

316
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:00,720
i had this dream in 1990 okay

317
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,160
about this film

318
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:04,880
a film being made about this character

319
00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:06,800
and in the dream

320
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:08,800
there was a scene in which

321
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:11,279
the shadow is two-dimensional

322
00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:14,000
and he's walking along a wall but he's

323
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,600
two-dimensional so it's as if he's

324
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:17,760
projected flat and then he steps out of

325
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:19,839
it and becomes three-dimensional

326
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:21,519
and there's another scene

327
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:23,600
this was in the dream where his

328
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,440
trademark 45 is a 45 you know automatic

329
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:29,440
there's two of them actually

330
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:31,680
and this is way before the matrix so

331
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,240
they they may have picked it up from him

332
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:36,079
and there's a scene in which

333
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:38,560
in my dream again this is 1990 in this

334
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,279
dream i've had where all i saw was his

335
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,760
gun and it's like against the whole of

336
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:45,279
mirrors so it's being reflected in many

337
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:47,519
many different sort of surfaces

338
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:49,040
and then something in the dream it was

339
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,040
about a sphere

340
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:52,720
the film had to do with some kind of

341
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:55,040
sphere and that was some central kind of

342
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:57,279
thing okay so that's 1990.

343
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,639
four years later in 1994

344
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,800
with my ex-wife well my future ex-wife

345
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:04,399
we were married at the time but that's

346
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,040
how i affectionately refer to her now

347
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,360
we went to see the shadow

348
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,920
starring alec baldwin

349
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,519
it's actually not a bad you know i mean

350
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,360
by today's standards the special effects

351
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:16,720
seem creaky but it's actually not a bad

352
00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:17,600
film

353
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:18,959
and i've

354
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,800
said to her on the way

355
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,959
oh you know i had to dream about this

356
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,040
you know and strange this kind of scene

357
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:26,800
happens and this scene happens and it's

358
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:29,200
about a sphere and all that and lo and

359
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:31,200
behold in the film

360
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,200
the two scenes that i just described are

361
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:35,200
there to a t

362
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,240
and the plot of the film surrounds these

363
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:40,560
mad evil characters wanting to blow up

364
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,920
new york

365
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:43,680
using something called the beryllium

366
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:45,839
sphere

367
00:12:49,829 --> 00:12:47,920
so as far as i'm concerned four years in

368
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:49,839
advance i dream

369
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:52,800
the plot and two scenes from that film

370
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,800
and that wasn't the only film that i i

371
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:56,720
dreamt in advance

372
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:58,959
much less of a time lag you know much

373
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,880
closer to actually

374
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:02,480
happening

375
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,160
again my ex-wife at the time she was

376
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,000
working for sony studios and one of the

377
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,680
films they were working on was coppola's

378
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:09,440
dracula

379
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,399
and

380
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,480
there was a special screening of it that

381
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:14,079
we were invited to before it was you

382
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:16,079
know released in public

383
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:18,240
and before that before she even

384
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:19,839
mentioned that that was happening i had

385
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:20,720
this

386
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,680
dream

387
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:23,519
in which it's like this horrible

388
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:25,760
hieronymus bosch you know

389
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:28,880
dantesque or william sparrow's s kind of

390
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:30,720
hell scene with you know

391
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:33,920
burning bodies and wolves kind of

392
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:37,519
crucified and limbs and people wading

393
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:39,519
through limbs and stuff of this sort and

394
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,120
i describe it in more detail in the book

395
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:42,959
but it's the general kind of thing and

396
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:44,240
then we were invited to the special

397
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:45,839
screening and it was all hush-hush this

398
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,040
is you know we weren't supposed to say

399
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:49,040
anything so even though my wife at the

400
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,480
time was working on the film she didn't

401
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,800
mention a word to me about it

402
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,399
and the opening of the film was exactly

403
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:56,639
that dream that i had had

404
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:57,760
so

405
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,440
i mean there's quite a few in the book i

406
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:01,680
mean in a way yes some of it's the

407
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:02,959
laundry list because he said there's

408
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,279
this one this one and it was just like

409
00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:06,720
as you said i

410
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,079
went back

411
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,040
into these dream journals i've been

412
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:13,760
keeping since about the 80s

413
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,160
and in them you know i pulled out

414
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:18,399
basically the best ones that seemed to

415
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,600
me

416
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,079
yeah there's no shortage of examples

417
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,199
from you personally and examples from

418
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:27,199
other people throughout history there's

419
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:30,240
a really interesting example from london

420
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,440
artist david mandel where on september

421
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:35,680
11 1996

422
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,760
he woke from a nightmare in which he saw

423
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:39,920
two towers collapsing from the impact of

424
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:42,639
an earthquake he had the same dream six

425
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,800
months later this time he painted it

426
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:46,720
producing a watercolor in which the

427
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:49,279
towers appeared with a small pyramidal

428
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:51,920
building nine months later from then he

429
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:54,000
had a similar dream in which two

430
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,920
airplanes hit two buildings from

431
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:57,279
opposite directions and you know where

432
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:58,399
this is going

433
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:01,600
in 2001 when he saw the attacks in the

434
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:03,519
world trade center on television five

435
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,160
years to the day of his initial dream

436
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:08,880
mandel was shaken you write he realized

437
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:10,959
that his watercolor exactly matched the

438
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,120
new york skyline with the burning towers

439
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,279
flanked by the pyramid-topped american

440
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:18,160
express building and he also is someone

441
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:20,720
who's had recurring pre-cognitive dreams

442
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:22,320
apparently there's a documentary about

443
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,639
him but i was also going to quote you

444
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,800
here when you talk about the hypnogic

445
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:28,800
state and you say

446
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,759
while on the hypnogic threshold we can

447
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,240
have some unusual experiences we can

448
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:37,120
watch dreams form and see them with a

449
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,759
startling vividness while yet still

450
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:41,040
being awake and aware of our

451
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:42,720
surroundings and

452
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:44,959
that's strange i can't recall having the

453
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,519
experience of watching dreams form while

454
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,600
still kind of awake but i also haven't

455
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,680
practiced it it seems like maybe you

456
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,839
have what insights have you gotten into

457
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,399
dreaming overall by hanging out in that

458
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:58,160
hypnogic state

459
00:16:01,030 --> 00:16:00,000
well i mean it's something that has to

460
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,040
say

461
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:03,279
you can acquire the habit of being able

462
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:06,399
to remain in that state

463
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,160
or you can just sort of learn how to pay

464
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:09,839
attention as you're falling asleep i

465
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,560
mean it's best actually to do it if you

466
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,320
can get up early in the morning a bit

467
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,639
earlier than you usually do

468
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,440
and drift out of sleep rather than sink

469
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:21,199
into sleep the reason it's better is

470
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,600
that oftentimes before you get the hang

471
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,360
of it you just get a bad night's sleep

472
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:27,360
if you're trying to stay awake as you're

473
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:29,040
falling asleep right which is the exact

474
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,800
opposite of what you want to do

475
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,560
but if you can linger a bit in the

476
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,560
morning you're waking up but you can say

477
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:36,880
okay i'm going to stay in this state for

478
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,320
a while i don't need to wake up

479
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,720
immediately just yet

480
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,240
i mean one of the things

481
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,040
there's a long history of

482
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,519
that itself going back to aristotle the

483
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:49,199
ancient greeks they were aware of this

484
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,120
in between state

485
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:53,199
there's a very very long history of it

486
00:16:57,990 --> 00:16:55,120
more recently

487
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:58,000
the surrealists in paris well like i

488
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:59,680
said more recently 100 years ago almost

489
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:01,600
now

490
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,959
they're the moderns but they're a long

491
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:04,480
time ago now

492
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:07,039
they used to hold kind of sleep offs you

493
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:09,839
might call them in the cafes

494
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:11,760
where different poets

495
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,240
robert desnos was one who was able

496
00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:16,240
apparently to send himself off into this

497
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,919
kind of state you know pretty quickly

498
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:19,439
and then he would just sort of this

499
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,679
automatic speech or automatic writing

500
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:23,280
but he would just kind of

501
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:25,520
give forth this kind of poetic

502
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:27,520
word salad as it were

503
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,440
and andre breton would be there and you

504
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:31,120
know some other people would copy it

505
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:32,720
down and that kind of thing

506
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:34,720
but you know people like jung

507
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:36,640
people like swedenborg

508
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:39,280
the um swedish savant whose

509
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:40,720
first half of his life was as a

510
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:41,840
scientist

511
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:43,679
and then he had a series of

512
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,640
strange experiences in his 50s

513
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,520
he was visited by angels and jesus and

514
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,200
you know a variety of other rather

515
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:53,120
luminous characters and telling him that

516
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:54,480
he had to give up science and how to

517
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:57,440
pursue the inner worlds rudolf steiner

518
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,240
there's reason to believe that when he

519
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:02,160
said he you know he visited the akashic

520
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:04,000
records or you know saw the akashic plan

521
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,360
and that kind of thing that he put

522
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:07,760
himself into a kind of hypnotic state so

523
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:09,200
it's something that you can't actually

524
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:11,280
work at to learn how to do just like

525
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,400
anything else you know if you want to

526
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:14,240
learn how to play a clarinet it doesn't

527
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:15,440
you know the first time you try it

528
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:16,559
doesn't work

529
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:18,799
most times right so you know you have to

530
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,000
learn it i mean myself personally

531
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:23,840
one of the examples i gave when i first

532
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:25,280
became interested in this sort of thing

533
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:26,799
was that

534
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:29,280
i was reading a book about

535
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,559
i forget the name of the book now but it

536
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,559
was a book about how both jung

537
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:34,000
freud and young were both very

538
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:36,559
influenced by greek mythology

539
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:38,320
in the way that they

540
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,320
spoke or expressed their ideas about the

541
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:42,240
unconscious and the psyche and so on and

542
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:43,679
so on

543
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,559
and

544
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,880
this is some years ago i sort of took a

545
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:48,480
nap or you know dozed off in the

546
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,200
afternoon after reading this book a bit

547
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:53,760
and as i was falling asleep i had an

548
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,280
image of

549
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,840
old cellar doors you know if you know

550
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,760
like i guess in the midwest you know

551
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,120
like behind the house there's the old

552
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,960
solar doors you get into the cellar that

553
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:04,880
way the storm seller

554
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:06,880
and they were kind of

555
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:08,559
something was pushing behind them you

556
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,720
know trying to open up trying to get out

557
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,240
and it was like opening

558
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:14,400
and then suddenly it burst open

559
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,600
and then all these mythological

560
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:17,520
characters came out

561
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,360
and that was a symbolic representation

562
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:21,200
of what actually was happening to me as

563
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:23,679
i drifted into sleep dozing off you know

564
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:25,120
the cellar is the underworld the

565
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:26,480
underground

566
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,440
i'm

567
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:29,360
slowly moving into it the doors are

568
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:30,240
opening

569
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:31,600
suddenly open and then i had been

570
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,679
reading about all these mythological

571
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:35,760
characters that both freud and young

572
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,559
were referring to in order to talk about

573
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:40,480
their versions of the unconscious

574
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:41,760
and the reason i'm saying this is there

575
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,280
was an early um

576
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:45,360
freudian a fellow named herbert silber

577
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,360
who most people don't know about

578
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,039
and he wrote about

579
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:51,520
the unconscious and alchemy even before

580
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,520
jung did he wrote a book called hidden

581
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,280
symbolism of alchemy in the hermetic

582
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:57,840
arts or something along those lines

583
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,480
sadly he was excommunicated from freud's

584
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:02,880
circle and freud had such a

585
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,120
fantastic power over some of his

586
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:07,679
acolytes that he drove into suicide and

587
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:09,760
her sibling found it hanging himself

588
00:20:14,549 --> 00:20:12,320
because freud excommunicated him but

589
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,559
luckily before that he wrote this paper

590
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:16,480
about hypnagogic phenomena and said they

591
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:20,159
are auto symbolic self-symbolic so the

592
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:22,240
images

593
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,039
the voices you hear voices sometimes you

594
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:26,880
know actually in the beginning of the

595
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,000
book sort of the dedication as it were

596
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:32,080
i quote something i heard is i was

597
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:33,679
drifting in the hypnagogic state and it

598
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:35,840
says lord help me believe in the primary

599
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:38,480
dreams of which my life is made

600
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,960
i didn't think that it just i heard i

601
00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:43,039
heard some voice saying that

602
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,799
so as you drift off into sleep you can

603
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,799
hear voices say something to you you

604
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,440
have different images happen

605
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,360
but they're not random we tend to think

606
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:52,799
they're random because we don't pay

607
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,480
attention to this stuff and we're told

608
00:20:58,149 --> 00:20:56,640
not to pay attention to it but if you do

609
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:58,159
pay attention to you see that it isn't

610
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,520
random that actually there's an

611
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,520
intelligence behind it the symbols are

612
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,600
symbolic of either what you were just

613
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:05,520
thinking about or your emotional state

614
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,640
or even your physical state so nowadays

615
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:10,559
often as i'm falling asleep i see little

616
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:13,120
men like hopping down stairs

617
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:14,720
if you remember slinkies i don't know if

618
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,159
anybody remembers that

619
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,600
i grew up with slinkys remember the

620
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:19,679
slinky's going down the stairs

621
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:20,480
so

622
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:23,840
of little men kind of hopping down the

623
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,760
stairs and going down

624
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:27,120
that's what's happening you're going

625
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:30,159
down you're falling asleep you're going

626
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,520
down into the dark unconscious and so

627
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,640
it's

628
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,559
what i've discovered over the years is

629
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:38,880
that whatever it is is responsible for

630
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,640
these things dreams

631
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:43,200
synchronicities whatever they may be

632
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,640
it's intelligent

633
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:46,320
and i shouldn't even say it because i

634
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:49,280
think it's more of a who than a what

635
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,120
yes

636
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:53,280
i had that line written down from your

637
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:55,840
book often it seems that the agency

638
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:57,760
responsible for our dreams is more of a

639
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:00,640
who than a what and it does feel like

640
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:03,440
there can be some kind of director being

641
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:06,799
shepherding our dreams but it's hard to

642
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,440
put a face on or a name

643
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,240
well yes i agree and it's like jung

644
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:14,320
talked about this

645
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:16,559
he didn't feel that

646
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:19,280
they we say the unconscious because

647
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:20,799
immediately that sets up a lot of

648
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,880
problems because we posit a particular

649
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:24,799
concrete thing or entity that's the

650
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,520
unconscious when you know

651
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:29,200
i don't know what's happening in china

652
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,280
right now so i'm not conscious of that

653
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:33,600
so that's part of the unconscious in

654
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:35,200
some you know broad kind of way but

655
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,120
still he said there seems to be an

656
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:38,960
intelligence but somebody doesn't seem

657
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,919
to have a focal point like we have it we

658
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:44,000
you and i talking now you know

659
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:45,760
our egos

660
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,480
our eye our sense of eye it's a kind of

661
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,360
bright magnetic center focal point that

662
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:53,039
you know draws the elements of

663
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:54,480
consciousness together

664
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,640
and you know we feel that sense but the

665
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:58,960
unconscious doesn't seem to have that

666
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,440
kind of as far as we can tell although

667
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:02,880
at the same time there does seem to be

668
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:04,880
an intelligence

669
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:06,880
the commentary

670
00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:08,159
well this is what young said you know

671
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:08,880
that

672
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:11,919
dreams are a commentary and they serve a

673
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:14,080
compensating function

674
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,760
for our

675
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,280
biased

676
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:22,470
precisely in order to enjoy the

677
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:24,400
advantages of having that tight focal

678
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,240
point that we call the ego i me and you

679
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,799
in order to have that we have to sort of

680
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:32,559
edit out quite a bit

681
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,520
so

682
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:35,039
that's not part of

683
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:38,000
what we see and what we use in order to

684
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:39,360
make our decisions and so the

685
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,480
unconscious

686
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:42,960
brings in that element that we've

687
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,559
excluded from our conscious attitude

688
00:23:47,909 --> 00:23:46,000
that's one way to look at it that's kind

689
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,919
of its function or it's teleology it's

690
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,679
purpose significant do that so to

691
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:51,440
compensate

692
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,960
but then you know it does sort of more

693
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,720
than that because that might just seem

694
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:57,279
kind of like a mechanical balancing out

695
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:58,799
thing but it does often seem what jung

696
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:00,400
said that what he calls the perspective

697
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,200
tendencies and it was precisely that

698
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,679
that notion that the unconscious had a

699
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:07,279
perspective tendency in the sense that

700
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:09,279
it was future oriented

701
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:10,720
freud just looked at it as cause and

702
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:13,039
effect you had that dream that's because

703
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,720
that happened to you when you were six

704
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:16,799
years old or whatever you know where's

705
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,640
young said oh you had that dream that

706
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,640
means this is pointing towards something

707
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,919
in the future

708
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:23,919
it's pointing towards something that

709
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:25,919
wants to express itself the unconscious

710
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:28,720
wants to become conscious it wants to

711
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,440
complement or make whole the conscious

712
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:33,200
attitude so it has a teleology it's

713
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:35,120
pushing towards the future not just

714
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:38,799
being pushed by the past which is

715
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:40,960
freud's fundamentally mechanical kind of

716
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:43,840
thing so i mean i just came to see that

717
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,279
sort of thing

718
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,080
and it's also over time if you do write

719
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,679
down your dreams

720
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,880
and

721
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:53,039
don't look at them for a while

722
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,720
and then go back

723
00:24:58,870 --> 00:24:56,960
say three months later go back and look

724
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:58,880
at go back you know dreams from that

725
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:01,279
period you'll see patterns emerging

726
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,320
you'll see

727
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,640
you know symbols coming out

728
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:06,240
and you don't have to go archetype

729
00:25:11,269 --> 00:25:08,880
hunting which i think that happens some

730
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,279
people get into that aspect of young

731
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:13,200
young thing which really

732
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:14,960
that just takes off you can go with that

733
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:16,720
forever you know what he called the

734
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:19,120
amplification you can keep finding

735
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:22,640
resonances and echoes with mythology and

736
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:24,159
things of that sort but if you just kind

737
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:25,520
of think okay

738
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:28,320
dreams they speak in a symbolic language

739
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:31,919
they tell stories they tell jokes

740
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:34,240
they really often tell jokes and plays

741
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,840
on words and puns

742
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:38,159
and it's almost like you can be too

743
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:40,000
clever by half and miss what's happening

744
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,520
because sometimes it's so obvious it's

745
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,200
like a really bad joke you know it's

746
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:45,600
like it's very very obvious and then

747
00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:48,159
when you see that it's like oh man

748
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:50,000
one thing if you know the transformer

749
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,919
films yeah the only reason i know them

750
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:53,520
is when my sons are young they love them

751
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:55,039
so we watch them

752
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:57,120
but the little guy bumblebee

753
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:59,919
right he can't talk

754
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,000
he can't speak like the other ones do

755
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:04,240
but what he does is that he picks up

756
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:06,159
bits and pieces from the radio or

757
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:07,600
whatever guys hits the radio because

758
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:08,960
he's in the car

759
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,799
and he uses that

760
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:13,200
that song a line from that song or some

761
00:26:16,549 --> 00:26:14,880
news report or something in order to say

762
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,559
what he has to say

763
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:18,240
so he can't communicate but he doesn't

764
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:21,039
speak in sequential logical language

765
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:23,360
like you know the other ones do and

766
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:25,039
that's sort of how

767
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,440
whoever is responsible for dreams speaks

768
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:29,600
in that way it communicates but not in a

769
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,159
direct way

770
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:34,799
yeah i was going to ask you about

771
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:38,400
what you would say we could do to dial

772
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:41,600
up or achieve better dream value

773
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,919
discernment or even dial down the

774
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:46,159
symbolic distortion that you mentioned

775
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,080
because it seems like there might be

776
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,480
something we can do to increase the

777
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,480
meaningful or insightful dreams and

778
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:54,159
decrease the random ones or maybe

779
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,520
there's none that are random we just

780
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,360
haven't found the meaning but

781
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,039
how would you say

782
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:01,600
people could get better at interpreting

783
00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:04,400
the language or finding the meaning in a

784
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:06,320
greater number of their dreams rather

785
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:08,080
than i'd say for a lot of people it's

786
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:09,760
probably maybe one in ten feel

787
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:11,919
meaningful when maybe they all are if we

788
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:15,200
had better eyes to see as they say

789
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:16,960
well what i'm going to say please don't

790
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:19,760
take this as a plug of advertisement for

791
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:25,430
psychologists but

792
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:26,240
it's

793
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:27,360
often

794
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:33,760
what the language of the dream is saying

795
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:35,360
your particular dream

796
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,120
better than you can

797
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:39,840
i mean each of us individually are very

798
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:42,880
often the worst person

799
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,880
to try to understand what the dream is

800
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:47,120
saying precisely because it's our

801
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,159
unconscious we are unconscious of that

802
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,000
right i mean that's you have to remember

803
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,240
i was like what jung says in that famous

804
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:56,000
interview

805
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:58,960
the unconscious it's really unconscious

806
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,000
you know

807
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:02,240
so we are unconscious of that so this is

808
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:03,840
stuff that we don't know about ourselves

809
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,000
i mean we can do our best

810
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:09,120
and as i say over time sometimes you can

811
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,080
so a dream i'm having now right whatever

812
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:14,080
i write it down i do and i okay what was

813
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:15,840
that and again i'd look for everything

814
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,440
you know i'm a writer so i'm aware of

815
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,159
metaphor and you know plays on words and

816
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,240
you know kind of thing but then if i go

817
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,000
back and read from you know dreams from

818
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:26,480
october maybe or september

819
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:27,919
i'll see stuff now that i wouldn't have

820
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:30,880
seen then because i'm not myself

821
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:33,520
in that psychic new year

822
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,600
that those dreams took place in but you

823
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,440
know someone outside

824
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:38,720
can see it because they have an

825
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:41,039
objective position and all that so it's

826
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:42,320
not guaranteed but you have a better

827
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,240
chance of doing that but i mean i think

828
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,080
the thing is is like a royal dream is

829
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,080
meaningful i think the best thing is not

830
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:50,640
to get too anxious about it but write

831
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,480
them down

832
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,640
in my experience i go through different

833
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:56,159
there's times when there's too many of

834
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,640
them there's too much

835
00:29:02,149 --> 00:29:00,480
other times it's like oh how boring and

836
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:02,159
i do i want to write another boring

837
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,000
dream damn like i do it because that's

838
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:06,320
my meditation or whatever i'm committed

839
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,240
to doing that so i do it but you develop

840
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:10,159
it's kind of i don't want to say channel

841
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,520
because that's like a loaded word but

842
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,679
you you develop

843
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,440
you develop a relationship in a way i

844
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,200
mean if you think of it that

845
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,600
who or whatever is responsible for

846
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:21,919
creating the dreams is somebody you like

847
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,080
to get to know but they're a bit shy you

848
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:26,880
have to remember they're not direct

849
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:28,960
i mean what they say may be direct what

850
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,679
they say may be oh my god yeah bang this

851
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,600
is something i need to know but they

852
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,000
don't say it in a direct way

853
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,080
you know and in some ways

854
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:39,600
as you say they're counting on our

855
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:42,240
intelligence to figure it out right and

856
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,840
they're infinitely patient and they keep

857
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:45,279
sending up

858
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:48,159
he'll get it at some point

859
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:52,159
that's what it is and it's us as jung

860
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,320
said it's a part of us sending postcards

861
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:56,000
to another part

862
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:57,760
yeah and i've also heard people talk

863
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,960
about if you pose a question or

864
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,120
something like some

865
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,600
dreamland eight ball like you will get a

866
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:07,440
better response so maybe this thing on

867
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,880
the other end of the line is like oh

868
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:10,720
they're actually paying attention this

869
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:12,880
time maybe they get more excited about

870
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:14,559
delivering something

871
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:17,600
well absolutely if you pay attention

872
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:18,559
again

873
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:20,559
he or she or whom or whatever is

874
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:23,760
responsible will respond

875
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,960
and

876
00:30:29,029 --> 00:30:27,120
rudolf steiner

877
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:29,039
in a different context but

878
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,880
well more or less in the same world

879
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,880
we're talking about but in his own kind

880
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:34,880
of you know way of talking about it he

881
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:36,080
said that if you wanted to speak with

882
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:37,760
the dead

883
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:39,840
what you did is that

884
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:40,880
you

885
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:47,760
so we're back in the hypnagogic state

886
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:48,640
again

887
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:49,600
right

888
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,039
and in jung he kind of says it is the

889
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:55,679
dead but he doesn't quite say it

890
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,480
he's had octopus

891
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,000
you know he's a scientist

892
00:31:04,389 --> 00:31:02,480
you know it's this is you know he's not

893
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:04,399
a mystic but he does more or less say

894
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:05,760
that you know if you become aware of the

895
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:07,519
collective unconscious if you become

896
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:08,799
aware

897
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:11,600
of the archetypes then you are connected

898
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,519
with your ancestors and you're connected

899
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:15,679
with and he he had his own you know just

900
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,760
like steiner and swedenborg

901
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,120
all of these guys had a deep

902
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,799
relationship with the dead

903
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:22,559
and not necessarily morbid but in the

904
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:24,640
sense that they felt they had a contact

905
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,720
with that world and that world connects

906
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:28,720
with the dream world and

907
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,120
time and all the mysteries in which we

908
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,200
find ourselves as you know as we slowly

909
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,360
wake up in this world we find ourselves

910
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:36,960
in we realize that you know the

911
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,880
fundamental things are absolutely as

912
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:41,200
mysterious as the first time we first

913
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,480
became aware of the mystery

914
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,039
yeah and another strange fact from your

915
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:49,600
book is that you mention

916
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:52,320
all mammals seem to dream but reptiles

917
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:55,440
and amphibians seem not to so i guess

918
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:57,200
queen elizabeth and klaus schwab would

919
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,440
be pretty lost in this conversation

920
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,600
uh you must have lost me there oh you

921
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:03,519
mean because david ike yeah yeah yeah

922
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:05,039
reptilian thing there's a low hanging

923
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,919
freak

924
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,919
yeah well i mean yeah yeah i know i i

925
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:09,840
understand no no i got i got it well i

926
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:10,640
mean

927
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,440
as far as we can tell according to sort

928
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:15,919
of the scientific research into it yeah

929
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:18,320
dreaming starts up with mammals with

930
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:19,840
warm-blooded

931
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:22,240
animals and it goes back very very very

932
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,200
far

933
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,159
and the strange thing about that

934
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:28,880
is that how should we say it

935
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:30,399
well

936
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:31,840
one of the things i write about in the

937
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:34,000
book and i've experienced

938
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:36,320
a great deal of and i actually wrote

939
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:37,760
quite a bit about it but i had to take

940
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:39,200
it out of the book it didn't quite fit

941
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:40,000
in

942
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,840
it's a strange phenomenon known as sleep

943
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:43,760
paralysis

944
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:45,760
and if you've ever experienced this it's

945
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,559
like

946
00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:48,320
when we fall asleep right and then we

947
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:50,399
fall into a dream state

948
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:53,919
in order so that we do not act out

949
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,640
what's actually happening in the dream

950
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:58,720
our brain shuts down

951
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:00,720
the centers that you know allow us to

952
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,720
move whatever parts of the brain that

953
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,240
may be

954
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,039
and this goes back to our

955
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:09,200
earlier you know pre-human

956
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,960
mammalian

957
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:12,720
ancestry

958
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:14,799
you know so the earliest mammals when

959
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,799
they fell asleep and they dreamed they

960
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:18,640
developed this

961
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:21,679
sleep paralysis it was an evolutionarily

962
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:25,120
adaptive strategy

963
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,399
but strategy to do what to preserve

964
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:30,000
dreaming

965
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:31,919
you have to think about that evolution

966
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:33,440
went out of its way

967
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,799
to develop

968
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,559
methods by which we could preserve

969
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,399
dreaming

970
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,320
because you know if

971
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,840
if dreaming wasn't considered that

972
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:43,039
important

973
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:44,799
evolution whatever you know wouldn't

974
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:47,200
have bothered to invent sleep paralysis

975
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:49,200
it would have got rid of dreaming

976
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,720
because you know what happened the thing

977
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:52,320
was that if you're sleeping and you're

978
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:54,080
able to move around and all that then

979
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:55,679
your predators will hear that and

980
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:57,919
they'll come and eat you

981
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,799
but if you're sleeping and you're not

982
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,399
able to move around

983
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:04,399
you can have the dream and your

984
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:06,159
predators won't know about it and even

985
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,599
today you know dog owners you know

986
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,200
watch their dogs when they're sleeping

987
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:12,800
they can see that the dogs are dreaming

988
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:14,720
yeah and they even have rem they have

989
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,320
rapid eye movement

990
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:18,000
and stuff like that but they're in sleep

991
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:20,960
paralysis and as i said i wasn't able to

992
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,399
put it into the book but one of the

993
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,200
strangest experiences of my life was

994
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,760
during a state of sleep paralysis

995
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:29,520
and i seemed to be in about three

996
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:31,119
different states of consciousness at the

997
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:33,280
same time

998
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:35,040
i wrote about it at length but i had to

999
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:36,480
take it out because it just didn't fit

1000
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:37,440
in

1001
00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:41,760
it now but i was sleep paralysis is when

1002
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:43,839
you say your body is your muscles are

1003
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:45,839
torpid as the word is you know they're

1004
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,960
slack

1005
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:48,480
they don't respond

1006
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:51,440
to any messages to move

1007
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,240
and that's said that's an evolutionary

1008
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:56,159
strategy that we've inherited by

1009
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,359
mammalian

1010
00:35:02,470 --> 00:34:59,760
ancestors so that we don't act out what

1011
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,480
we're dreaming and attract predators but

1012
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:05,040
what happens to some people

1013
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:06,720
it certainly happened to me quite a bit

1014
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,200
especially if i fell asleep on my back

1015
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:11,280
at night not during this all this weird

1016
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:13,040
it wouldn't happen during the day if i

1017
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:14,240
took a nap during the day it wouldn't

1018
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:15,200
happen

1019
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:16,960
if i still sleep at night on my back

1020
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:19,520
this is when it would happen

1021
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,240
i would fall asleep then i'd wake up

1022
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:24,240
but my mind would be awake but my body

1023
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,920
would be slack

1024
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:27,920
i wasn't able to move

1025
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,960
i could barely move my little finger

1026
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,280
the slightest bit with an enormous

1027
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:35,920
amount of effort of will

1028
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:37,839
and then bang it would kick in and i

1029
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:40,079
would jump

1030
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,599
you know out of bed

1031
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:43,440
and this is something that goes back to

1032
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,040
um well

1033
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,520
nowadays people use it as an explanation

1034
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:49,920
for you know alien abduction experiences

1035
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:52,079
or out of the body experiences or so on

1036
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:53,119
and so on

1037
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,560
if you haven't experienced it it's one

1038
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,400
of the strangest kinds of things and

1039
00:36:01,030 --> 00:35:58,800
there was one time when

1040
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,040
i was in the sleep paralysis state i was

1041
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:03,040
in a dream

1042
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:06,160
and i was also aware of the outer world

1043
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:08,160
that i was in i was aware of my ex-wife

1044
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,000
trying to wake me up out of the dream

1045
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:12,400
she was also in the dream trying to wake

1046
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:14,079
me up huh

1047
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:16,000
and then i was in some other third state

1048
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:19,280
when i was aware of those two things

1049
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:20,960
the dream and the

1050
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:23,680
quotation mark real life right

1051
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,200
wife trying to wake me up so i mean

1052
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:29,040
once you start going down these strange

1053
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,200
tunnels you realize consciousness and

1054
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,440
our experiences is a much stranger thing

1055
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,440
than anybody thinks they know about

1056
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:37,680
right right and when people talk about

1057
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:39,359
sleep paralysis that's often when they

1058
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:41,839
have the incubus succubus experiences

1059
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,480
and hack attacks and these beans that

1060
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:46,960
seem to be in the room and only move

1061
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:48,480
forward when you're in a heightened

1062
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:50,800
state of fear as if they feed on it it

1063
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:53,760
gets quite weird and we cannot function

1064
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,359
without sleep i mean as long as our

1065
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:57,680
lives are you might be able to go two

1066
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,320
days three if you really uh put the

1067
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:02,560
energy and effort into it i guess but

1068
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:04,160
beyond that i mean you will drive

1069
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:06,720
yourself crazy you cannot live without

1070
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:08,720
sleep and that's a really odd

1071
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:11,599
mechanism for life and

1072
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,800
i was going to ask you a little bit more

1073
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:14,400
about synchronicity because when it

1074
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:15,520
comes to

1075
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:17,359
call it meaningful coincidence you write

1076
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:19,280
about young's take on synchronicity

1077
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,200
which i think most people are familiar

1078
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:22,960
with but then also

1079
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:27,200
paul kamer's concept of seriality and

1080
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:31,119
j.w dunn's surrealism idea how would you

1081
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,000
compare and contrast these other models

1082
00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:36,240
for this phenomenon we could call

1083
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:38,560
meaningful coincidence

1084
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:39,920
all right well

1085
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:42,400
young synchronicity is just as you said

1086
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:44,720
meaningful coincidence

1087
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:46,320
so there's something

1088
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:47,760
you're thinking about something in your

1089
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:50,400
head right some concern of yours

1090
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,960
and then suddenly outside in the real

1091
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:53,920
world

1092
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,920
just resonates with that so remarkably

1093
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,200
acute

1094
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:03,599
that you can't help but think how did

1095
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:05,599
that happen all right so i'll give you

1096
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:07,359
an example of my own experience very

1097
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,160
quick

1098
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:09,839
i write about in the book

1099
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,800
again back before covid hit i was on my

1100
00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:13,920
way

1101
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:16,720
to give a talk here in london

1102
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,280
at the theosophical society on colin

1103
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:21,359
wilson who's a writer who's written

1104
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:22,800
about all this sort of stuff and he's

1105
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:24,480
also been a major influence on my own

1106
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:26,880
work and his most famous book was his

1107
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:29,599
first book and it's called the outsider

1108
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:31,920
and it's a study of you know existential

1109
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,880
anxiety and madness and men of genius

1110
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:36,400
and so on and so on

1111
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:38,079
so it's on my way to give a talk about

1112
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:39,280
this

1113
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,119
and then on the way

1114
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:43,599
i thought ah there's something i need i

1115
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,440
have enough time i'll pop into this

1116
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:47,359
market just to grab what i need on the

1117
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:49,040
way to give the talk

1118
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,480
and so i'm in the checkout line

1119
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:54,240
and there's a magazine rack and the

1120
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:57,760
magazines are so place that all i can

1121
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,640
see

1122
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:00,640
of vogue

1123
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:03,200
is the title that it's vogue and then

1124
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:06,480
the headline of a lead article

1125
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:09,760
that's all i can see like a thin band

1126
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:11,200
and everything else is blocked out by

1127
00:39:14,069 --> 00:39:12,480
the magazines

1128
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,079
and what's the headline of the lead

1129
00:39:19,109 --> 00:39:16,720
article the outsider

1130
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:19,119
so on my way to talk about the outsider

1131
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,760
by chance i pop into a market and look

1132
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:24,000
at the cover of vogue and all i see of

1133
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:26,240
that cover all i can see is just the

1134
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:28,640
words the outsider so i laugh

1135
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:31,599
i take a photo of it

1136
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:33,359
post it on twitter and then i talk about

1137
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:34,640
it at the talk

1138
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:37,520
and then on the way home

1139
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:39,119
i stop in the same market because it's

1140
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:40,480
on my way home because there's something

1141
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:41,760
else i needed and i thought you know

1142
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:43,280
what i'm gonna go look at that magazine

1143
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,280
see what was that all about

1144
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,800
it couldn't have been about the i

1145
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,400
subsequently found out it was about a

1146
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,400
singer named billy eilish who i i don't

1147
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:51,760
know anything about

1148
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:52,480
but

1149
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:53,839
i thought i'll go check and see what

1150
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,000
that was about but then when i got there

1151
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,760
it wasn't there all the magazines had

1152
00:40:02,069 --> 00:39:59,760
been changed

1153
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:02,079
the new issues had been put in place

1154
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:03,839
so if i hadn't popped in

1155
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:06,240
as they say here on my way to give the

1156
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:07,920
talk about the outsider i wouldn't have

1157
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:08,960
seen

1158
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:11,200
that sliver of a cover of vogue for

1159
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:15,839
march that year 2019 i think

1160
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:16,640
the

1161
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:21,200
it a synchronicity it's a coincidence

1162
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,960
but it's a meaningful coincidence

1163
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:24,720
because it was it's meaningful to me

1164
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:26,240
that i was on my way to give a talk

1165
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:28,079
about that so i i took it as like you

1166
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,800
know a tap on the shoulder good show

1167
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,720
or with you you know my guardian angel

1168
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:34,240
whatever you might say

1169
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:37,040
but paul camera is a very fascinating

1170
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:39,440
character i was an austrian scientist a

1171
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:40,880
biologist

1172
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:42,880
and there's a wonderful book

1173
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,880
by a writer arthur kessler was an

1174
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:46,560
another writer from the 20th century who

1175
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:47,359
most

1176
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,319
he's not

1177
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,880
read these days as much but he should be

1178
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:52,880
and he wrote a book called the case of

1179
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,800
the midwife toad and why it has that

1180
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:56,400
strange title is

1181
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,800
the midwife toad is a toad is a an

1182
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:00,240
animal that

1183
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:03,520
camera used in experiments to prove

1184
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:05,119
what's known as

1185
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,640
the inheritance of acquired

1186
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,160
characteristics

1187
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,480
which is a mouthful but basically that

1188
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:11,920
means that

1189
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,720
if

1190
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:14,800
one generation works really hard to

1191
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:17,680
develop and adapt to you know the

1192
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:19,760
environment and successful adaptation

1193
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:20,880
they can

1194
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:23,599
pass that on to the next generation

1195
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:25,599
through their genes and strict darwinian

1196
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,400
neodorian says no no the gene plasm is

1197
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,800
in violate you just can't get to it the

1198
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:32,480
only thing that can get to it is random

1199
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:35,520
mutations it's like so the smithy in the

1200
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,200
village who worked really hard in a

1201
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,200
strong muscles he cannot pass those

1202
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:42,000
muscles on to his children and what

1203
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:44,480
lamarck who's a french

1204
00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:47,200
natural scientist before darwin said no

1205
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,359
no this happens the giraffe got its long

1206
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,359
neck because earlier giraffes reached up

1207
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:53,839
to get not the low hanging fruit but the

1208
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:55,359
nicer fruit that was a bit further up

1209
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,400
the tree

1210
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,319
so they made efforts to stretch and

1211
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:00,240
stretch and reach and reach and they

1212
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:02,079
pass that on and so on and so on in a

1213
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:03,760
way it's kind of what

1214
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:06,160
rupert sheldrick has talked about in his

1215
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:08,000
idea of morphic resonance

1216
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:11,359
it plays a part in that so in any case

1217
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,359
that's why camera is interesting but in

1218
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,440
this book kessler also talks about

1219
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:17,520
another aspect of his work was that he

1220
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:20,160
was very interested in what he called

1221
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,480
seriality where he saw where similar

1222
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:24,720
things happened in sequence

1223
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:28,079
or many of them happened simultaneously

1224
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,839
so it goes back to the old adage that

1225
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,200
you know things happen in threes or

1226
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:33,040
there's obviously if some celebrity dies

1227
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:34,000
and we hear about it then we usually

1228
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,920
hear about two other ones

1229
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:37,200
at least when i was growing up that was

1230
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,520
the thing so oh so-and-so died oh then

1231
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:40,800
you waited a while and you would hear

1232
00:42:44,309 --> 00:42:42,880
about two other ones who died as well so

1233
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,319
strange phenomena things happen in

1234
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:46,720
threes and so camera collected

1235
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:48,640
not necessarily they're coincidences

1236
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,640
when they happen simultaneously so you

1237
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,319
could have a cluster

1238
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:54,160
lots of similar things all happening at

1239
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:56,000
the same time in place

1240
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:58,960
or you can have several similar things

1241
00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:01,200
happening in sequence

1242
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:01,920
so

1243
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:07,280
you might have a day where you lose

1244
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,200
three or four things

1245
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,040
and you know or this that's that may be

1246
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:13,119
a lame example but i'm

1247
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:14,400
trying to think of someone off top of my

1248
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:16,079
head but he collected these kinds of

1249
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:18,400
things and he believed there was

1250
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:20,079
a law

1251
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:22,000
you know just like gravity where similar

1252
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:22,880
things

1253
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,560
collected together

1254
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:27,839
and then

1255
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,839
dunn's serialism is different this is

1256
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:31,599
how he tried to explain

1257
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,640
the future dreams he was having

1258
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:36,880
and what that meant was that

1259
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:38,480
he developed

1260
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:41,119
different levels of time

1261
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,000
so

1262
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:44,400
to explain the fact that in the dream

1263
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,280
state he somehow had access to future

1264
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:49,680
events

1265
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,480
he

1266
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:52,720
developed this notion of different

1267
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:56,480
observers so observer one is you and i

1268
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,240
in our everyday life

1269
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:00,560
we're stuck glued to the present

1270
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:03,359
the past is behind us it's dead

1271
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:05,040
we have no access to it anymore the

1272
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:07,040
future hasn't happened yet we have our

1273
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:10,400
nose right down to the railway line of

1274
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:12,560
sequential you know

1275
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:15,440
time and events and our job is basically

1276
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,839
to gather information about

1277
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,160
all this sort of stuff and then he said

1278
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:22,319
what we have is an observer too it's

1279
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,920
another level of consciousness but this

1280
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:25,359
is in the dream state when we fall

1281
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,640
asleep and

1282
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:28,400
when we go into the dream state our

1283
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,599
consciousness is no longer anchored

1284
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,079
in harness to the present moment

1285
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,319
and in many ways his ideas he doesn't

1286
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:38,319
refer to the philosopher andre bergson

1287
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,760
but they're very similar along the same

1288
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:41,280
lines as the french philosopher arne

1289
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:43,839
bergson who said that the brain is the

1290
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,720
organ of attention to life

1291
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:48,560
the brain is what we use to deal with

1292
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:51,040
life so the brain deals with you know

1293
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:53,040
how do we maneuver through things how do

1294
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,800
we deal with things it has a practical

1295
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:56,880
application and all that and in order to

1296
00:45:01,990 --> 00:44:59,440
do that it cuts out an enormous amount

1297
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,000
of information that's there but it's not

1298
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:04,560
necessary for us to survive it's

1299
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:06,000
irrelevant

1300
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:08,000
to what we need to do in order to get

1301
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:10,319
through our life and all that so don

1302
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,079
adobe doesn't mention bergson's this

1303
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,880
notion of or every day you know waking

1304
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:16,480
what the state we're in right now

1305
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:18,480
hopefully

1306
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:21,040
is you know one which we're fixed into

1307
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:23,680
you know right now and dealing with life

1308
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:26,079
but when we sleep

1309
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:27,920
we're sort of that harness you know

1310
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:30,560
falls off us and our consciousness rises

1311
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:32,240
up a little bit and then we can see the

1312
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:33,760
past because there's so many dreams in

1313
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:36,000
which we have the past in a very vivid

1314
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:37,920
way you know some past event comes back

1315
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:38,800
to you

1316
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,280
but we can see the future as well

1317
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,440
but then dunn also said there's another

1318
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:44,880
level

1319
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:47,520
above that as well in which we can sort

1320
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:48,319
of

1321
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:50,319
so dream one

1322
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:52,720
observer one fixed on the present waking

1323
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,359
consciousness level two the dream state

1324
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,680
future and past mixed together

1325
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:00,000
level three is above that looking down

1326
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,359
on that and

1327
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:03,119
unfortunately

1328
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:05,200
in the end i mean he falls into the trap

1329
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:07,040
the metaphysical horror of what's known

1330
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:08,800
as infinite regress

1331
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:10,720
so he keeps having another time another

1332
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:13,040
time another observant observer because

1333
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,960
you know each

1334
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,960
level of time requires somebody outside

1335
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:18,960
of it in order to you know

1336
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:20,560
so we start out with the mystery of

1337
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,560
dreams this is one of the things i sort

1338
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:24,480
of try to express in the book is like we

1339
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:25,920
have the mystery of dreams but then you

1340
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:28,240
use because the precognitive fit and all

1341
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:31,520
that you slip into the mystery of time

1342
00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:33,359
which is even stranger

1343
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,640
yes

1344
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:36,880
then dreams because we know we have

1345
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,640
dreams and we might not know exactly

1346
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:40,160
what they're about but we know we have

1347
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,680
them but as soon as you start thinking

1348
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,960
about time

1349
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:44,720
it's a horrible cliche but it slips

1350
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:47,119
through your fingers yes yes you cannot

1351
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:49,920
grab hold of it in any way whatsoever

1352
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,680
it's true and i have some questions

1353
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:53,680
about time but i also wanted to mention

1354
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,040
this so you also say that kmer's

1355
00:47:02,230 --> 00:46:59,920
seriality is similar to what in

1356
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,240
probability theory is known as the law

1357
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:04,240
of large numbers and i love that you

1358
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:06,240
touch on that because it's something

1359
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,240
that really blows my mind and doesn't

1360
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:10,480
get talked about nearly enough this idea

1361
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:13,520
that if enough random events are

1362
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,240
recorded they produce stable ordered

1363
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,000
patterns as you say the insurance

1364
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:20,400
industry is based on this fact and you

1365
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:22,720
give examples like the number of people

1366
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:25,599
bitten by dogs in a single day according

1367
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,160
to statistics provided by the new york

1368
00:47:34,270 --> 00:47:30,240
department of health this proves to be a

1369
00:47:41,069 --> 00:47:34,280
remarkably stable number in 1955 it was

1370
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:41,079
75.3 in 1956 it was 73.6 in 1957 it was

1371
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:44,400
73.5 and so on you say no one can tell

1372
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,559
which dog will bite which person that's

1373
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,480
the random part and how the dogs

1374
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:50,160
themselves know when enough people have

1375
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:52,640
been bitten so that they can stop is

1376
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:53,680
unclear

1377
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:56,160
but the statistical average remains

1378
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:58,800
constant i haven't seen statistics for

1379
00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:00,559
more recent years but i imagine they're

1380
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:02,480
not radically different and i just

1381
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:05,040
really love not only that example but

1382
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:06,720
there's just so many you also talk about

1383
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:08,720
the number of murders in a given year we

1384
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:10,800
don't know who will be killed or by whom

1385
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:12,480
suicides average remains the same

1386
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:14,960
suicides it's very

1387
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:17,839
weird what does the law of large numbers

1388
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:20,720
say to you about reality

1389
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:22,160
well i mean it's just one of these weird

1390
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,680
things that if you fall into this

1391
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:27,920
area of study it's something you come up

1392
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,960
against

1393
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,640
you discover and it just seems to be the

1394
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,720
case as you say you know

1395
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,800
what strikes us as random events if you

1396
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:36,880
collect enough of them

1397
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:38,800
they produce some kind of

1398
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:41,920
statistical pattern and i guess this is

1399
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,520
sort of the characteristic of the

1400
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,520
quantum world in the elementary particle

1401
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:46,960
world and all that right because you

1402
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:49,200
know the actions of all these individual

1403
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:51,200
particles appear random but there's a

1404
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:52,880
statistical average about them that

1405
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:54,960
enables us to

1406
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:57,680
gives us a predictive you know power

1407
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,680
with them in that kind of thing

1408
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,200
yeah it's just one of those really

1409
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:03,280
really strange things how do the dogs

1410
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:04,559
know

1411
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:06,559
when to stop biting

1412
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:09,599
yeah how do the poor people who are

1413
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:12,240
driven through horrible life experiences

1414
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:14,480
to commit suicide know when there's

1415
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,400
enough of them and

1416
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:18,319
i'm sorry to make a morbid joke but can

1417
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:19,839
you imagine the one who just like went

1418
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:22,319
over the edge okay oh okay

1419
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:23,920
well the other ones did it and we

1420
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,599
reached the statistical number maybe he

1421
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:27,599
was saved in some strange way he or she

1422
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,559
was right

1423
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,559
it seems to strike residences it must

1424
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:32,880
strike resonances with sheldrick's idea

1425
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:34,240
of morphing resonance and that kind of

1426
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:35,920
thing where somehow

1427
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:37,920
it's passed on

1428
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:43,190
well how should i say i'm going to

1429
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:45,200
resort to the cliche these days of like

1430
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:46,800
quantum entanglement but it must be

1431
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,319
something like that i mean how do the

1432
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:50,240
elementary particles know what the other

1433
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:53,119
elementary particles are doing right

1434
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:55,680
how do the neurons in the brain that are

1435
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:58,079
not contiguous they're not next to each

1436
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:00,880
other so we can't imagine a neuronic

1437
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:03,440
elbow banging into the next one

1438
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:05,680
and telling it to light up but they're

1439
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:07,200
neurons in their brain that are

1440
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:10,160
associated with certain you know

1441
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:12,720
operations or actions taken they're not

1442
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,079
contiguous they're not next to each

1443
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:16,240
other but they fire

1444
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,920
at the same time

1445
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:19,200
how do they know

1446
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:21,119
you know when to do that it's very

1447
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:24,319
strange it makes me picture some grand

1448
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:27,359
cosmic being playing like a giant pipe

1449
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,280
organ but instead of music it creates

1450
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,119
something like a symphony of events on

1451
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:33,440
the physical plane but i like what you

1452
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:35,040
said about how do we know when there's

1453
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,559
enough because it's like makes me think

1454
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:39,040
about how sometimes when people have car

1455
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:41,599
accidents they're saved by an angel and

1456
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,280
then other times they're not maybe the

1457
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:45,680
angels know it's like hey we're at

1458
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,160
capacity for today's deaths by car

1459
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,319
accident so uh you're gonna get pulled

1460
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,400
out of the wreckage buddy

1461
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,480
yeah that's right we reached the quota

1462
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,040
uh already yeah i mean it who knows i

1463
00:51:01,190 --> 00:50:59,599
mean i tell you it sounds banal but

1464
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:01,200
in another conversation with somebody

1465
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,440
else another podcast they asked me like

1466
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,800
you know you've written all these books

1467
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:06,240
and all this time is happening and

1468
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:08,000
you've written this book and you you've

1469
00:51:11,829 --> 00:51:10,160
kind of opened up about experiences of

1470
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,839
your own and all that so you know where

1471
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:13,280
are you at now

1472
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:14,880
and i just feel like i'm just beginning

1473
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:16,400
i'm just starting to think

1474
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:17,680
you know

1475
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,200
all this stuff is real and what does

1476
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:21,200
that mean what does it really mean that

1477
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,359
it's all real you know

1478
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,920
temporal displacements strange phenomena

1479
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:27,760
like this

1480
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:29,599
i'm saying rhetorically because i don't

1481
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,119
really have an answer to that but it is

1482
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:33,359
sort of a more um

1483
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:35,040
emotive

1484
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:38,240
feeling of its cogency and reality and

1485
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:39,599
you know perhaps that's got something to

1486
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:40,640
do with the fact that i'm you know i'm

1487
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,559
getting on in years i'm you know i'm

1488
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:44,319
desperately clawing on to late middle

1489
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:45,520
age

1490
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:47,280
so i'm i'm aware that i'm approaching

1491
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,040
the infinite although it's around us at

1492
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,200
all times anyway

1493
00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:53,680
so perhaps i'm shrugging off

1494
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,240
concerns that are more parochial than

1495
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:58,640
trying to focus on broader ones

1496
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:59,839
right

1497
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:01,359
very much possible

1498
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,800
you also write a bit about dream history

1499
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,800
let's say and how cultures like the

1500
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,119
egyptians the greeks the chinese hindus

1501
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:11,040
and babylonians all interpreted the

1502
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:12,559
dream experience

1503
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,400
egyptians thought they were warnings

1504
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:16,640
from the gods babylonians thought they

1505
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:18,640
came from spirits what more can you tell

1506
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:21,119
us about some of the oldest thoughts on

1507
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,359
dreams and who had the most interesting

1508
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,599
ideas about them

1509
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:27,520
well it's remarkable that

1510
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:30,720
in the mid 19th century

1511
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:32,800
when the library

1512
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:35,760
of the babylonian king ashurbanipal

1513
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:37,440
was unearthed

1514
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:38,480
that

1515
00:52:43,829 --> 00:52:40,480
what they found in it

1516
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:43,839
among other things was a collection of

1517
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:47,280
records of dreams going back millennia

1518
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:52,640
so ashurbanipal's in 600 bc thereabouts

1519
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,040
and he had collected tablets this wasn't

1520
00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:57,119
papyrus this is tablets

1521
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:58,960
and i don't mean you know

1522
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:01,280
computer tablets

1523
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:04,240
stone stone you know heavy stone tablets

1524
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,839
of dream records

1525
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:07,680
going back to you know

1526
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:09,760
two thousand years before him

1527
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:12,400
so ashley boundary paul is old for us

1528
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:13,920
but he thought it important to hold on

1529
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:16,079
to these dream records from two thousand

1530
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:18,480
years earlier than himself

1531
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:20,720
and another odd thing is that in that

1532
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:23,520
cache of ashurbanipal's library was

1533
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:24,720
discovered

1534
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:26,480
gilgamesh

1535
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:28,720
which is considered the first

1536
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:31,440
extant work of great literature you know

1537
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:33,040
rather than sort of

1538
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,720
religious literature

1539
00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:36,880
in gilgamesh itself there's the earliest

1540
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:39,440
account of a dream interpretation

1541
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:42,480
so there's a strange kind of

1542
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,839
link between literacy or literature

1543
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:47,280
and the elements of literature and

1544
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:49,680
dreams and that becomes apparent as i

1545
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:51,280
mentioned earlier when people you know

1546
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:52,559
if you start paying attention to dreams

1547
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,040
dreams tell a story they use metaphor

1548
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:57,280
they have dramatist personae and things

1549
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:58,559
of that sort you know there's a

1550
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:00,640
beginning middle and end they may not

1551
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:02,800
happen all in that sequence

1552
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:05,359
sometimes but that's that they have that

1553
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:06,480
and

1554
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:08,400
i mentioned earlier about dreams telling

1555
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:09,680
jokes and that's one of the things that

1556
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,800
the egyptians realized that their dreams

1557
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,400
speak and it kind of

1558
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:16,800
plays on words and puns although

1559
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:18,079
what may have

1560
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,480
got a smile or laugh out of an egyptian

1561
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,800
it probably wouldn't raise too many

1562
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:24,400
laughs today

1563
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,240
so

1564
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:29,280
early on i think people realize that

1565
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:30,960
dreams are very much of the time and

1566
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:32,960
place in which they happen

1567
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:34,880
so that would say that

1568
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,599
the kind of you know one size fits all

1569
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:39,520
all-purpose kind of dream manuals that

1570
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:41,440
says oh well if you dream about a cat or

1571
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:42,640
if you're dreaming about losing your

1572
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:44,319
teeth or something like that it means

1573
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:45,440
that

1574
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:48,400
time

1575
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:51,040
for some people but not across the board

1576
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:52,640
and of course there's all the jungian

1577
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:54,079
archetypes and all that sort of stuff

1578
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:55,839
but those are the big dreams which we

1579
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:57,760
don't have that much

1580
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:59,359
i think we have to admit that those big

1581
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:01,680
dreams are few and far between

1582
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:04,079
and that's what makes them big

1583
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,119
you know if you have mystical

1584
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:07,760
experiences every day what's the point

1585
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:09,839
you know i have to say i i do often you

1586
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:11,119
know because i'm in this world i do

1587
00:55:14,789 --> 00:55:12,559
often come across people who tell me

1588
00:55:16,630 --> 00:55:14,799
about the 49th mystical experience and

1589
00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:16,640
it's just wonderful but

1590
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:19,119
didn't you get it on the 48th

1591
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:21,520
right you know so i mean you have the

1592
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,440
big dreams when you need them they're

1593
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:25,599
not entertainment and this is

1594
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:28,319
i have a little

1595
00:55:31,750 --> 00:55:30,559
dream to pick with the kind of lucid

1596
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,760
dream

1597
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:33,359
proponents

1598
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:34,960
i'm not against it as a stupid way to

1599
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:36,640
even talk about it but just in the sense

1600
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:38,640
that kind of using the dream state in

1601
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:41,920
order to achieve kind of ego based

1602
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:44,400
needs and aims oh well if i use the

1603
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,559
dream state i can develop my creativity

1604
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:48,480
or i can develop my self-esteem or

1605
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:50,480
whatever sort of thing like that whereas

1606
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:51,920
young would say no we should keep our

1607
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:53,680
hands up in a way it's the last little

1608
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:55,920
bit of nature

1609
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:57,920
that's allowed us

1610
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,920
that's inside us

1611
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:01,520
there's not nature we have to go out and

1612
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:02,400
find

1613
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:04,079
somewhere out in the woods it's inside

1614
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:05,599
us

1615
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:09,680
it complements the ego it's something

1616
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:12,400
other than the ego so if you start

1617
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:15,440
trying to think of how can i use this

1618
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:16,960
and you start thinking of it in a

1619
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:19,200
utilitarian way

1620
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,640
it just gets problematic at the same

1621
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,960
time you know fine go do it i mean i i

1622
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:24,640
know people who pursue this and you know

1623
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:26,400
there's you know lots of different books

1624
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:27,920
about how you can develop

1625
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:29,599
lucid dreaming and you know stay awake

1626
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:31,359
and dreams and that's part of a variety

1627
00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:33,359
of different mystical techniques you

1628
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:34,160
know

1629
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:36,160
tibetan yoga

1630
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,839
dream yoga is about that is like

1631
00:56:41,349 --> 00:56:39,920
maintaining wakefulness in the dream

1632
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,359
state but that's in order to convince

1633
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:43,599
you that okay well the dream state is an

1634
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,119
illusion

1635
00:56:49,829 --> 00:56:47,680
if i'm not awake in the dream state

1636
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:49,839
i'm immersed in the illusion

1637
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:51,760
right but when i

1638
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:54,400
gain lucidity within it i've raised

1639
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:56,160
myself up out of the illusion i can

1640
00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:57,839
recognize that's an illusion and the

1641
00:57:01,829 --> 00:56:59,599
next step is to recognize that the

1642
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:01,839
waking life is similarly

1643
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:04,079
an illusion like that and so you know

1644
00:57:07,589 --> 00:57:05,440
that's kind of the

1645
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:07,599
buddhist kind of aim

1646
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:09,920
i understand that but

1647
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:11,920
jung's point of view is like well the

1648
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:14,559
dream is trying to say something to you

1649
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:17,200
so there's a cleavage there between the

1650
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:18,400
two different things just like anything

1651
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:20,079
else you know there's arguments about

1652
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:21,760
all different you know these arguments

1653
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:24,480
about the waking state as well

1654
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:27,760
right on well fascinating stuff you are

1655
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:30,400
a living fountain of knowledge and

1656
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:32,640
i really enjoyed the book dreaming ahead

1657
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,440
of time is a great read and i appreciate

1658
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:37,200
your willingness to come back and talk

1659
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:40,079
to me when podcasts like this are in no

1660
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,359
short supply no no always a pleasure it

1661
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,359
takes a lot out of me to try to keep up

1662
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:47,680
with you man but it is worth it before

1663
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:50,480
we go remind the people of your body of

1664
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:52,960
work the new book your website any

1665
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:54,799
upcoming work worth of mention and all

1666
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:56,480
that good stuff if they might want to

1667
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:58,880
follow up after listening to this okay

1668
00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:00,319
well the new book is called dreaming

1669
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:02,160
ahead of time experiences and

1670
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:04,720
precognitive dreams synchronicities and

1671
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,000
coincidence

1672
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,400
it's published by flores books and uh

1673
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:10,720
it's out available now on

1674
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:13,359
kindle the digital edition and the hard

1675
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,319
copy

1676
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,240
in the states i think it's not until may

1677
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:17,760
and in the uk

1678
00:58:22,309 --> 00:58:19,839
sometime later this month

1679
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:22,319
i have a website just my name gary

1680
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,799
lachman.co.uk

1681
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:26,799
i post things there quite a bit on

1682
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:28,880
twitter i'm on facebook

1683
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:30,880
it's not hard to find these days so if

1684
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:32,480
you're really interested i'm sure we can

1685
00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:33,680
meet up

1686
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:36,880
right on great well you are the man and

1687
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:38,720
it was a pleasure once again keep up the

1688
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:47,109
exit light enter night people gary

1689
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:50,720
lachman bringing it like only he can

1690
00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:52,559
you know i was really grateful when he

1691
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,079
reached out to tell me about the new

1692
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:56,160
book because he's such a great writer

1693
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:58,319
and has really impressive recall for all

1694
00:59:01,510 --> 00:59:00,240
the bright minds and ideas that he's

1695
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:01,520
researched

1696
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:04,400
so if he thinks thc is worthy of his

1697
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:06,799
time well i'm proud of that

1698
00:59:11,510 --> 00:59:08,960
but some of my previous episodes that

1699
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:11,520
focused on dreams really

1700
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:13,920
just ended up not being the best we have

1701
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:16,480
done it a time or two over the years

1702
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:19,119
so i had a little trepidation

1703
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,480
but i don't know what i was so worried

1704
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:23,040
about gary's book is deep and dense and

1705
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:25,680
covers a vast amount of compelling ideas

1706
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:28,559
related to pre-cognitive dreams and time

1707
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:30,559
and the law of large numbers

1708
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:32,559
and as soon as i got a little bit into

1709
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:34,559
the book i knew we were gonna have a

1710
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,839
great show

1711
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,480
dreams are quite weird and it's also

1712
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:40,400
strange that describing a dream to

1713
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:42,720
someone never really translates the

1714
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:45,040
meaning is always so personal

1715
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:47,200
but the hypnagogic state itself is

1716
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:49,280
pretty compelling knowing just how many

1717
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:51,280
mystics and clairvoyance use that

1718
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:54,000
half-awake half-dreaming state knowing

1719
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:55,760
just how many abductions and bedroom

1720
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:58,799
visitations happen in that state as well

1721
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:01,680
it's all quite odd

1722
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,760
another story i was reminded of from

1723
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:05,440
gary's book that i don't think we

1724
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:07,680
brought up was that edison used to fall

1725
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,520
asleep in a chair with ball bearings in

1726
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:10,960
his hand and when they dropped to the

1727
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:13,359
floor he'd be awakened from that state

1728
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:15,520
and if he concentrated on a problem as

1729
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:16,960
he drifted off

1730
01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:20,160
he'd oftentimes get a solution that way

1731
01:00:24,069 --> 01:00:21,920
obviously we've all heard the phrase let

1732
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,079
me sleep on it when making a decision

1733
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:26,240
but how often do we actually think about

1734
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:29,040
our problem or even goals

1735
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:30,799
when we drift off

1736
01:00:35,349 --> 01:00:33,200
it's like you can't get the insight that

1737
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:35,359
that state is designed to give you if

1738
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,960
you don't

1739
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:39,680
first concentrate on whatever issue it

1740
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:41,040
is

1741
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:43,839
so maybe do that more often

1742
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:46,000
i would certainly say i've had dreams

1743
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,240
where the details felt more real than

1744
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:51,119
waking life it's as if my senses seemed

1745
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:53,920
more heightened than waking life

1746
01:00:57,829 --> 01:00:55,920
years later i even remember a dream i

1747
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,839
had where i had these epic adventures

1748
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,839
with some warrior woman

1749
01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:01,440
like an action movie that went from

1750
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,160
sci-fi to horror to medieval

1751
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:06,319
but i remember the bond i had with this

1752
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:08,720
character being stronger than so many

1753
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:10,720
relationships i've had in real life and

1754
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,200
this is from when i was like 12.

1755
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:15,040
it was as if we formed a really deep

1756
01:01:19,430 --> 01:01:16,640
bond because we went through so many

1757
01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:19,440
traumatic dangerous events together

1758
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:21,040
but then it's gone

1759
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:23,040
i had another dream years ago that

1760
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,200
explained the mechanics of spirit

1761
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:27,040
interaction in a bunch of different

1762
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:29,599
scenarios and many stories

1763
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,240
and i woke up with the very aggressive

1764
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:34,079
notion ringing in my head that it should

1765
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:37,520
be turned into a movie called pledge

1766
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:39,359
i still think that's a great name for a

1767
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:41,920
movie about spirit interactions

1768
01:01:45,670 --> 01:01:43,760
even if i would get sued from the

1769
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:45,680
cleaning spray company

1770
01:01:49,990 --> 01:01:47,839
plus we've all had those weird falling

1771
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:50,000
sensation dreams what the hell is that

1772
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:51,280
about

1773
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:53,680
it seems as if just like the night sky

1774
01:02:00,069 --> 01:01:56,319
it's a baked in call to reflect on what

1775
01:02:02,390 --> 01:02:00,079
life even is but we just so often don't

1776
01:02:04,069 --> 01:02:02,400
i did strategically bring up the law of

1777
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:04,079
large numbers at the end of the free

1778
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:05,760
show because i think that's such a cool

1779
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,359
phenomenon

1780
01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:09,200
it's like the world is a symphony of

1781
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:11,680
events if you zoom out far enough

1782
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:13,920
and it got me thinking about good and

1783
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:16,079
bad luck in general you know it's

1784
01:02:20,230 --> 01:02:18,160
actually been a long time since i've had

1785
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,240
a day where a bunch of things went wrong

1786
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:22,000
all at once but i did have this day

1787
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:24,880
recently that i'm just in awe of

1788
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:27,119
it started with me prepped and ready for

1789
01:02:31,589 --> 01:02:29,359
an interview and we get on the call and

1790
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:31,599
my guest says i only have time for one

1791
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:34,000
hour and i say well it's a two-hour show

1792
01:02:38,870 --> 01:02:36,000
we agreed to this it was in my interview

1793
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:38,880
request i can't just do an hour

1794
01:02:42,069 --> 01:02:40,319
and they said well i don't have two

1795
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:42,079
hours in me and i don't think i ever

1796
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:43,119
will

1797
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:45,359
so i prepped for this show

1798
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,119
that the guy said he would do and now

1799
01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:49,839
won't do and i said all right i guess

1800
01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:52,640
we're at an impasse and we hung up

1801
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:54,400
so that's about the most frustrating

1802
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:56,799
thing that can happen to me work wise

1803
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:58,400
and i called my wife because she took

1804
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:00,160
the baby to the zoo so i could have a

1805
01:03:05,029 --> 01:03:03,520
quiet place to record and i was so

1806
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:05,039
frustrated i'm like let me go to the zoo

1807
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:06,559
too and we hung out there for a while

1808
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:08,640
and then we put theory in my car and not

1809
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:10,960
even a mile out of balboa park i run

1810
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:12,799
over a big rock in the road and i get a

1811
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:14,480
flat tire

1812
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:17,520
so baby's screaming i pulled over and

1813
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:19,119
i'm up against a curb that makes it

1814
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:21,200
really hard to change the tire

1815
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:23,760
i call my wife she picks up the baby and

1816
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,280
she goes home

1817
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,680
i get the jack out of my car which i've

1818
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:29,760
yet to use since i bought this car and

1819
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:32,559
the center screw on it is bent so badly

1820
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:35,599
and makes changing this tire even harder

1821
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:38,160
but i get it done and i go to leave and

1822
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:40,000
my car battery is dead because i had my

1823
01:03:44,230 --> 01:03:42,240
flashers on for so long

1824
01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:44,240
my wife has to come all the way back we

1825
01:03:48,549 --> 01:03:45,920
jump the car and then before she can

1826
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,559
even get home a guy sideswipes her right

1827
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,799
on the baby's car seat side and then

1828
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:52,319
drives off

1829
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:55,920
so nothing with any lasting consequences

1830
01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:57,760
everyone and everything is ultimately

1831
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,039
fine

1832
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:01,119
but what a day neither of us have ever

1833
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:03,359
been in a hit and run i've changed

1834
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:06,160
dozens of tires with no problems

1835
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:08,079
and the chances of an interview being

1836
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:11,039
cancelled in that way has only happened

1837
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:13,599
like twice in 10 years so it was a

1838
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:16,720
perfect storm of annoying events

1839
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:18,559
when it rains it pours i guess but the

1840
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,200
probability was so low that it just got

1841
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:23,520
me thinking about some spirit riding me

1842
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:26,319
or maybe someone cursed me or maybe the

1843
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:28,319
astrology was always pointing to that

1844
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:30,960
being a bad day and if i was more aware

1845
01:04:35,430 --> 01:04:33,359
of my chart and didn't plan an interview

1846
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:35,440
for that day maybe it all would have

1847
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,119
passed over me

1848
01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:39,599
but gary is great and when i was nervous

1849
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:41,599
that we could fill a show at this book i

1850
01:04:45,109 --> 01:04:43,359
said how about we do dreaming ahead of

1851
01:04:46,789 --> 01:04:45,119
time for the first hour and rudolph

1852
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:46,799
steiner in the second and he was cool

1853
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:47,760
with that

1854
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:49,440
but i went back to our last interview

1855
01:04:54,789 --> 01:04:51,359
and we actually talked about steiner

1856
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:54,799
quite a lot so i pulled an audible and

1857
01:04:58,950 --> 01:04:56,960
switched it to hermes because he had a

1858
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:58,960
great recent presentation on the hermes

1859
01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,880
figure and i thought that that was a

1860
01:05:03,670 --> 01:05:02,480
great decision and it all worked out

1861
01:05:05,349 --> 01:05:03,680
really well

1862
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:05,359
some of the other plush show topics

1863
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:07,680
would be ancient cultures thoughts on

1864
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,400
dreams how to make more synchronicity

1865
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,480
albertus magnus

1866
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,880
heightened emotions and magic

1867
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:16,319
synchronicity

1868
01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:19,200
ascended masters and astral hobos and a

1869
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:22,000
little bit about alchemy and hermes it

1870
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:23,680
was a great time he knows a lot about a

1871
01:05:27,750 --> 01:05:25,920
lot sign up for plus if you like what i

1872
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:27,760
do and how i do it and you want a little

1873
01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:29,200
bit more

1874
01:05:33,349 --> 01:05:31,119
also pick up the book if you think this

1875
01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:33,359
is your bag because there are way more

1876
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:35,440
details in it than we could ever cover

1877
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:37,119
in a two-hour interview it's a very good

1878
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,160
book

1879
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:40,799
but in higher side news i finally got to

1880
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:42,960
meet darren and graham of gramerica in

1881
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:44,480
the flesh

1882
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:47,200
i also met joe roop brandon powell owen

1883
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:49,200
hunt one of the snake brothers and a lot

1884
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:51,760
of cool people who surprisingly knew who

1885
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:53,839
i was and were all very nice and

1886
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,359
complimentary

1887
01:06:00,309 --> 01:05:58,319
this was an event in pinetop arizona the

1888
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:00,319
gromerica guys do these things all the

1889
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:02,799
time on their website contact

1890
01:06:06,309 --> 01:06:04,799
thecabin.com

1891
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:06,319
this one was called magic on the

1892
01:06:11,029 --> 01:06:08,079
mountains there was some wim hof

1893
01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:11,039
breathing there were kiddie pools of

1894
01:06:14,789 --> 01:06:13,200
very cold water set up outside and

1895
01:06:16,390 --> 01:06:14,799
people did the wim hof breathing and

1896
01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:16,400
jumped in the water

1897
01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:19,200
it was quite a show for me sitting there

1898
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:21,680
smoking a joint next to the fire

1899
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:23,440
but it was a really good time

1900
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:26,799
the fact that i was so recognizable and

1901
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:28,640
well liked by the crowd was very

1902
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:30,640
off-putting for my buddy who came with

1903
01:06:33,190 --> 01:06:31,359
me

1904
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:33,200
he just had no idea that people would

1905
01:06:37,109 --> 01:06:34,960
want to take pictures with me or

1906
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:37,119
anything like that which was

1907
01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:39,039
just quite funny

1908
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:40,480
we've known each other

1909
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:43,920
half my life probably 20 years so

1910
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:46,079
i got a kick out of that but you never

1911
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:48,799
know thc is just an audio show and

1912
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:50,720
nobody was there for me so i wouldn't

1913
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:52,400
have been surprised if nobody knew who i

1914
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:53,359
was

1915
01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:55,920
i guess my voice is a little unique and

1916
01:06:59,829 --> 01:06:57,760
that maybe gave it away

1917
01:07:02,710 --> 01:06:59,839
but we had a good time we were cheering

1918
01:07:05,430 --> 01:07:02,720
to the mandates dropping across canada

1919
01:07:08,230 --> 01:07:05,440
and then just as i got home we have this

1920
01:07:09,990 --> 01:07:08,240
emergency order in canada and trudeau is

1921
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:10,000
going after the bank accounts of the

1922
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:11,920
truckers and that's a scary place that

1923
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:14,720
nobody wants to be obviously we're still

1924
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,480
in the middle of the story

1925
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:18,720
but instead of just conceding and saying

1926
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:21,280
fine truckers can go unvaccinated it's

1927
01:07:25,510 --> 01:07:23,200
only a small percentage anyway most

1928
01:07:28,390 --> 01:07:25,520
people already got the shot and we know

1929
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:28,400
that the shot doesn't work so this makes

1930
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:30,079
no sense

1931
01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:31,920
i thought they were just about to back

1932
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:34,160
down but instead they escalated to an

1933
01:07:38,950 --> 01:07:36,160
unprecedented level

1934
01:07:40,789 --> 01:07:38,960
the fact that a psyop trucker protest is

1935
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:40,799
one of the cards in the illuminati card

1936
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:42,559
game that's very prophetic doesn't make

1937
01:07:47,510 --> 01:07:45,280
me feel any better about any of this

1938
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:47,520
but we are at that turn off the money

1939
01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:49,680
faucet if you step out of line point in

1940
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:51,599
the timeline that gordon laid out ever

1941
01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:53,920
so well in our last episode i think in

1942
01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:56,480
january or maybe december

1943
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:58,400
and i'm not happy about it

1944
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,280
it's probably worthy of an episode

1945
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:03,440
at this point but let's see how far this

1946
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,920
goes i would hate to cover something

1947
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:07,760
right before the next big chapter in

1948
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:09,200
that story

1949
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:10,559
but it's something we should all be

1950
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:12,319
keeping an eye on

1951
01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:15,200
also plus members now have a more robust

1952
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:17,759
account management page my guys put that

1953
01:08:22,470 --> 01:08:20,080
together and it's quite nice it does

1954
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:22,480
have all the information you'd want but

1955
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:24,239
we're probably going to jazz it up a bit

1956
01:08:27,669 --> 01:08:26,799
more and make it a fuller dashboard that

1957
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:27,679
shows

1958
01:08:32,470 --> 01:08:30,640
latest episodes latest forum posts and

1959
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:32,480
all your account stuff right there when

1960
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:34,080
you log in

1961
01:08:40,149 --> 01:08:36,719
but already it's a lot simpler to change

1962
01:08:43,189 --> 01:08:40,159
your password your username your card on

1963
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:43,199
file cancel your account if you need to

1964
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:44,719
all in an effort to make plus

1965
01:08:49,990 --> 01:08:47,279
memberships more self-managed and cut

1966
01:08:51,749 --> 01:08:50,000
down on the money that i pay for support

1967
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:51,759
so it's a big step in the right

1968
01:08:57,229 --> 01:08:54,880
direction i am happy with it so far

1969
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:57,239
as for the calendar of events at

1970
01:09:01,669 --> 01:08:59,279
highersidemeetups.com we have new york

1971
01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:01,679
city this weekend on february 18th at

1972
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:03,359
cafe 28

1973
01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:06,319
and then on february 24th someone added

1974
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:08,560
a combined meetup with no agenda

1975
01:09:12,149 --> 01:09:09,839
listeners

1976
01:09:14,470 --> 01:09:12,159
why not unite the tribes huh

1977
01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:14,480
so if you're a fan of both shows or

1978
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,080
either head down to pikes peak brewing

1979
01:09:23,349 --> 01:09:20,880
on february 24th in colorado springs

1980
01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:23,359
colorado the very city i was born in

1981
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:24,560
funny enough

1982
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:26,319
and have some beers and meet some new

1983
01:09:28,870 --> 01:09:27,359
friends

1984
01:09:31,269 --> 01:09:28,880
and the rest of the events go on into

1985
01:09:34,630 --> 01:09:31,279
march so we'll wait on those but hop on

1986
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,640
over to the calendar and rsvp for these

1987
01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:36,719
events if you're in the area and of

1988
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:38,719
course feel free to make your own we're

1989
01:09:43,349 --> 01:09:40,480
supporting craft beer all over this

1990
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:43,359
great nation and the world really

1991
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:45,759
finally big thanks again to gary for

1992
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:47,679
coming back on he is one of the good

1993
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:48,880
ones

1994
01:09:53,349 --> 01:09:50,880
what the hell is up with precognitive

1995
01:09:54,790 --> 01:09:53,359
dreams time the hypnagogic state and

1996
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:54,800
life itself

1997
01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:56,800
we may never really know but we can keep

1998
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:58,800
pulling on the threads right

1999
01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:00,719
thanks for sticking with me the members

2000
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:03,600
are so so much appreciated it's the only

2001
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:05,600
way i can keep this up

2002
01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:07,440
and i'll see you next time i've done my

2003
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:09,840
part your move dream strangeness

2004
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,600
suppressors deeper consciousness

2005
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,280
concealers and directors of the

2006
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:15,040
day-to-day distractions that keep us

2007
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:16,880
from the mysteries

2008
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:17,840
your

2009
01:10:22,630 --> 01:10:19,920
[\h__\h]

2010
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:22,640
lucid dreams are so vivid cause you go

2011
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:25,120
to bed at seven and your brain comes

2012
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:27,760
alive cause you hate your nine to five

2013
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:30,400
you wake up with a dread and make sure

2014
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:32,800
your cats are fed did your brain talk to

2015
01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:34,880
a ghost who moved your coffee and your

2016
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:37,760
toast as you listen to the higher side

2017
01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:39,440
chats

2018
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:42,159
you get to your desk and your boss says

2019
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:45,040
it's a mess and your soul slowly grows

2020
01:10:50,229 --> 01:10:47,440
to a place where nothing grows when you

2021
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:50,239
think he's not around you insert a seti

2022
01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:52,640
sound

2023
01:10:58,870 --> 01:10:55,280
the om says turn it down and you say

2024
01:11:01,910 --> 01:10:58,880
it's just the higher side chats

2025
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:01,920
oh do you think you'd be invited

2026
01:11:06,630 --> 01:11:03,920
to bohemia grove

2027
01:11:09,910 --> 01:11:06,640
to a bilderberg club

2028
01:11:12,390 --> 01:11:09,920
oh do you think you'd be invited

2029
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:12,400
by a rothschild to a party on a

2030
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:15,280
submarine

2031
01:11:19,990 --> 01:11:17,760
diving down

2032
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:20,000
to the center of the earth through the

2033
01:11:26,470 --> 01:11:22,640
marianas trench your teeth begin to

2034
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:26,480
clench from the sulfurius stench

2035
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:30,480
the mask you're given doesn't fit

2036
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:37,990
starting today you'll make plans to get

2037
01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:40,800
away there's no one to hold you down and

2038
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:43,520
the what if start to drown then you wake

2039
01:11:48,790 --> 01:11:46,400
to the glare of a cold fluorescent stare

2040
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:48,800
and the light winks at you cause its

2041
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:51,199
life is almost through but it's holding

2042
01:12:09,440 --> 01:11:54,239
on to quit time just like you

2043
01:12:09,450 --> 01:12:16,709
[Music]

2044
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:19,510
and that is another show complete

2045
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:21,360
remember as much as you enjoyed this

2046
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:23,679
which is just the free first hour i hope

2047
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:25,440
you'll become a plus member to hear the

2048
01:12:30,149 --> 01:12:28,239
full two hour interviews you also can

2049
01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:30,159
engage with other plus members in the

2050
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:32,800
comments and the forums and you'll find

2051
01:12:36,149 --> 01:12:34,320
your answer to one of the most common

2052
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:36,159
questions i get which is where can i

2053
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:37,920
find those cover songs that you use at

2054
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,760
the end of the show well they are free

2055
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:42,000
downloads for plus members too

2056
01:12:45,910 --> 01:12:44,080
and without plus members i can't hire

2057
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:45,920
the occasional musician to bring these

2058
01:12:50,790 --> 01:12:48,960
odd cover song ideas to fruition plus

2059
01:12:52,790 --> 01:12:50,800
members are how i'm able to do what i do

2060
01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:52,800
without ads and without the big machine

2061
01:12:57,590 --> 01:12:55,600
being on my back we can fit so much more

2062
01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:57,600
into a two-hour interview and i do my

2063
01:13:00,310 --> 01:12:59,440
best to make it worth your time and

2064
01:13:02,470 --> 01:13:00,320
money

2065
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,480
the conversation only gets deeper

2066
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:04,400
weirder and more controversial

2067
01:13:08,229 --> 01:13:06,640
in that private hour how could it not

2068
01:13:10,430 --> 01:13:08,239
the way things are going

2069
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:10,440
but the best way to sign up is at the

2070
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:12,800
highersidechats.com where new first-time

2071
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:15,440
subscribers always get a free seven-day

2072
01:13:19,990 --> 01:13:17,920
trial because i'm just that confident

2073
01:13:22,149 --> 01:13:20,000
there's no paypal on the website but if

2074
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:22,159
you need to use paypal then sign up

2075
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:23,920
through patreon and you get all the same

2076
01:13:27,189 --> 01:13:25,120
episodes

2077
01:13:28,870 --> 01:13:27,199
our website is a credit or debit system

2078
01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:28,880
but you can also scope out the other

2079
01:13:34,390 --> 01:13:31,760
options like a few various cryptos cash

2080
01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:34,400
or check mail to the p.o box and i'll

2081
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:36,239
even barter with most people if you have

2082
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:38,080
your own business and produce something

2083
01:13:42,709 --> 01:13:40,719
nice that my wife or kid or taste buds

2084
01:13:44,709 --> 01:13:42,719
might like but the architects of

2085
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:44,719
consensus reality have made it clear

2086
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:46,400
that these themes and topics aren't

2087
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:48,880
really welcome on the main stage and so

2088
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:50,640
this is how we secure a little

2089
01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:52,719
counterculture corner for ourselves and

2090
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:54,960
i hope you'll join plus because that is

2091
01:13:59,350 --> 01:13:56,800
the only way it works

2092
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:59,360
besides you can cancel any time right on

2093
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:01,760
your profile page the most common

2094
01:14:06,310 --> 01:14:03,840
concern i hear is people just being

2095
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:06,320
unsure if thc plus will work with their

2096
01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:08,719
podcast app and the answer is probably

2097
01:14:13,510 --> 01:14:11,520
yes but if not we have several high

2098
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:13,520
level app recommendations for whatever

2099
01:14:17,030 --> 01:14:15,679
phone you use and the website is made

2100
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:17,040
for mobile too

2101
01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:18,719
we're trained to tip a waitress for

2102
01:14:22,229 --> 01:14:20,400
bringing us a sandwich but that tip

2103
01:14:24,790 --> 01:14:22,239
doesn't give you access to a second

2104
01:14:26,310 --> 01:14:24,800
sandwich really i'm not asking for any

2105
01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:26,320
more than that and i think i offer a

2106
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:28,320
better service come get your second

2107
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:30,640
serving of tasty conspiracy goodness in

2108
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:32,640
exchange for that small token of your

2109
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:35,280
appreciation beyond that let it also be

2110
01:14:39,590 --> 01:14:37,199
known that we have grown and survived as

2111
01:14:41,590 --> 01:14:39,600
long as we have by word of mouth

2112
01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:41,600
i don't care so much about social media

2113
01:14:46,870 --> 01:14:43,679
likes or follows but tell the right

2114
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:46,880
people about thc and not just listeners

2115
01:14:50,550 --> 01:14:48,560
but the high level figures who are

2116
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:50,560
better suited to sit down with me than

2117
01:14:54,790 --> 01:14:52,880
most other hosts and if you can help me

2118
01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:54,800
with any of these things i can work to

2119
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:56,800
bring you better shows which is just a

2120
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:58,560
win-win for both of us

2121
01:15:02,870 --> 01:15:00,400
informative entertaining and

2122
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:02,880
action-packed it also never hurts to

2123
01:15:06,550 --> 01:15:04,560
thank a guest you liked if you have the

2124
01:15:07,990 --> 01:15:06,560
time either we want them to know people

2125
01:15:10,229 --> 01:15:08,000
are listening so they're willing to come

2126
01:15:12,470 --> 01:15:10,239
back down the road too thank you for